People Matter... So, We Count

It's not profoundly new or newly profound. It's not profound. It's not new. For critics of the mega-church or the seeker-sensitive church (again, I prefer "Jesus-focused and people-sensitive"), the issue of counting seems to be profoundly old and irrelevant, but that's another post.

Rather, I bring it up again because I'm wrestling with what I've allowed to transpire over the past year or so as I've led our teams to help connect our members and attendees in group and ministry team relationships. But before I get there, I offer the reminder that there are two categories of measurement for what any organization tracks when evaluating success (success is always about accomplishing stated goals, objectives, mission - and every church should have those):

• Hard measurements -  visible, identifiable, trackable numbers and percentages
• Soft-side measurements - feedback, stories that reveal perception, and in the case of the local church, life change

Here's the wrestling match for me. I swung the measurement pendulum so far to the soft-side to validate the power of story among relationships that no one on my team (including me) expected the hard measurements to be inspected. Remember: what's expected gets inspected.

So, I'm revisiting both sets of measurement tools: hard and soft. They both matter. Numbers are people - always people. And people matter. They matter to God and they matter to us. Period. A great story from a person is just that - it's great! But, when charged with the responsibility to create environments for people to connect to each other and Christ,  who and how many of our people are stepping toward Christ in those environments will determine whether or not we even hear stories of life change.

Part of the challenge for us at Granger is that we teach and encourage relationships - not merely groups. We have groups, we create groups, we have a group ministry; but we strive to practice authentic, caring, Christ-honoring relationships. Groups are a method, not the essence. This means that establishing a target is challenging. What number in group relationships is "success" or sufficient?

So, I'm curious. Since people matter - what are you measuring in your group environments? What are the gages you're putting in the pipeline to read outcomes? How are you filtering and communicating stories of life change from those relationships?

I'm listening.

Comments

[Rich Kirkpatrick]

Wow. We have been having this discussion a bit at our church. I went to your conference, btw, on First Impressions and am impressed. We are scratching our heads in that area as well as others. How do you measure the spiritual impact of a song service, for instance. So, I am curious, too, and asking similar questions!

[Jeff Hook]

Mark,

In my management training in private industry when I was responsible for a Profit and Loss statement it was drilled into me that if you do not measure it, you cannot improve it. Now that I am in the church industry, it amazes me how few things a church really measures. So much evidence of improvement is anecdotal – the soft stuff as you referred to it. That provides the positive evidence that something has happened, but it does not tell you how much has happened.

Granted, the amount of life change cannot be measured in any one person through a metric. But the number of people in which some form of life change can be measured – such as how many public professions of faith, how many belong and are attending small groups, what percentage of people who attend give, etc? Then by improving these numbers, a church can understand its real “Return on Ministry.” Shouldn’t the statistics of dysfunction in people’s lives be better than that outside the church? Isn’t dysfunction within people’s lives a function of the sin in their lives?

Now if we can take it a step further to see if the church can be that light on the hill within the community. Shouldn’t the abortion rate and/or teen pregnancy rate go down in a community if a church is having a positive impact? Shouldn’t community crime go down if such is the case? Many churches are not even measuring what is going on inside the walls of the church let alone thinking about measuring metrics against the demographics of the community. What impact could we make to the fallen brethren if showed them the impact Christians have on society overall as well as the individuals themselves?

I think America got a glimpse of that when Katrina hit. Where would some of those victims have been without the many churches coming to aid them? We truly are a positive impact, but without some metrics and measurements we are left to defending ourselves as if we, all labeled as “conservative Christians”, have little positive impact.

Grace to you,

Jhook
CEO / President
Fellowship Technologies

[Tadd Grandstaff]

Mark great post! So, many times we are knocked for tracking numbers and discussing how many we are running or hoping to run. And everyone always says that we are consumed by numbers, but I don't see it in that way! Those number represent people and peoples lives that have an opportunity to be changed...yes we all want to grow but I see the numbers as a result of what God is doing through us! If God has called us to reach our communites and people are coming and we aren't growing then I have to feel that the reason we exist is not be fulfilled. But, the only way we can measure our success at time is the number of people who attend and who are visiting....

[Tony Myles]

I think the question is who are the numbers up to - us, God, or the people we hope to show up to something? Or is the responsibility of ministry in our courts?

In other words, of course God calls us to competence AND communication... but which is He more concerned about? And which are we?

And what about untrackable ministry... for instance, if you have a youth pastor on staff who isn't bringing in people to your programs/ministries but has an incredible on-campus ministry where kids are coming to Christ and getting into peer discipleship (but not necessarily through Granger)... is he/she doing his/her job? Would he/she be allowed to stay on staff if the program suffered but the overall Kingdom impact was incredible?

Sorry... perhaps I just have more questions than I do answers. :)

[Mark Waltz]

Looks like I'm not, our church is not, the only one wrestling with this question. An important outcome is found in the process of wresting: we ask more questions. We end up asking questions that may not have made it to the table otherwise.

I am convinced of this: the numbers do tell us (because numbers are lives of people) a great deal. Life change (often a subjective or soft-side measurement) can be seen in giving, serving, relational connections, as well as numbers of new people attending... say, weekend services. People whose lives have been changed by Christ will invite others to "come see".

Behind the numbers there are stories. Personal stories. Personal stories with faces on them. Personal stories with faces on them that bear scars, question marks, and amazement.

People really matter... so we count.

I'm still listening.

[Tony Myles]

So let's agree that numbers matter.

How much should they matter to the organization? Again, should staff ever be let go for not producing trackable numbers? Or is the job of staff to provide a healthier culture for God to move, the lost to feel invited in, the saved to feel invited up, and everyone feel invited to invite others into the Kingdom?

There's a book of Numbers in Scripture... we read about thousands coming to the Lord through certain events, and daily others being added to the Kingdom.

What about when God trimmed back the numbers for the sake of the Kingdom, though? Was there not a time when Israel and Judah were swallowed up by neighboring nations as a means to get their attention through discipline? Or the "one" sheep that the Shepherd is so concerned about that he leaves the mass numbers behind to find it.

All that to ask... when should staff be let go over the issue of numbers, if at all?

Or perhaps the question behind the question - who is ultimately responsible for producing more numbers?

[Jeff Hook]

Numbers are only one measurement of success. Leaders should be focused on all measurements: hard and soft.

Should someone be fired for not providing numbers? In industry, the person responsible for the numbers is either fired for not succeeding or moved into a support role.

Does industry have it right in this case? It really depends on the leadership style of the head person. If the leader cannot pull the numbers in, then that leader needs to hire someone who can positively affect the numbers, because over time without growth a church dies - because the people die.

Grace to you,

jhook

[Tony Myles]

I agree. Without growth the thing dies.

So what is actually considered "growth?"

What we can track (i.e. 100 more people in service this week) or what we can't track (100 people sharing their faith at the office, school, or neighborhood)?

If someone is producing trackable numbers, they usually keep their job.

If someone is producing untrackable numbers, they usually don't.

I think we get this wrong... too often.

[Nathan Clair]

What about being concerned for numbers only insofar as you can care for those numbers with integrity?

Healthy things do grow.
But just because you're organization is good at marketing doesn't mean you are healthy.

People do count, but that does not necessarily mean having high numbers is desirable.

If you talk with insiders at some of the largest churches in America, there is the constant challenge and concern that they have no way to track the intangibles--they can track their 20,000 plus people, but they don't really have any way of knowing if they are growing spiritually.

And, when they're "off the record", so that they are not perceived as disloyal, they own the fact that it bothers them and they know that what we do in churches is ultimately NOT about hard measurements of attendance, buildings and cash. They worry they are betraying the intangible, but profoundly real concern of our efforts--life change, spiritual development, etc.

Just because you have more people listening to "the Gospel", doesn't necessarily mean more people are actually being changed.

[Phil]

Go read "The Other Side of Pastoral Ministry" by Daniel Brown and stop counting people ;-)